Star Forge
Online
Upcoming Events
HoloNet Feed
Drawing Board Feed
Latest Threads
Dulfy RSS
Donations
Container minimized. Expand
HoloTracker: Include (1) Character's In-Game Name, (2) Faction, and (3) Location
HoloTracker [1390]
You do not have access to chat.
Welcome to HoloTracker

Working...

Page
of 2

Resolved [Suggestions] Moderation of Chatbox

19 replies
Jai
Posts:
129
Neutral
So hey.

Hearing about the latest stuff concerning moderation on EBHawk, and the behaviour of some of its users, I would honestly like to put forth what I feel is a simple, yet constructive method to tamp down on the reports of bad behaviour on the site:

Get rid of the chatbox. Go back to all communications being via forum thread.

Hear me out on this -- y'all mods say you love to do things via consensus and that a real-time response cannot be always provided since all mods are not online at the same time. Which is great.

However. One cannot have a forum-sanctioned, real-time communication method without forum-sanctioned, real-time, 24/7 moderation if y'all want to continue to do shit via consensus. This is how shit blows up, and, given that the chatbox is THE VERY FIRST THING a new user to the site sees, it is not doing the "community" such as you call it any particular favours.

Too, you have stated in the past that the moderation team believes that the community can self-police. I believe that the number of complaints in the past little while puts that myth to rest.

So, get rid of the chatbox. Let users post what they want to post, and moderate -those-. Flamewars can definitely be relatively contained on a forum, plus, all the bullshit is there to be seen by everybody, so any cries about personal vendettas can go right out the window.

Plus, y'all can coordinate and demonstrably respond to such things immediately, even if it's just to lock a thread (and if you need full consensus to do that... I implore you to please reconsider how you run things, simply from a logistics point of view).

There have been WAY too many posts on my dash about how so-and-so has come to believe that the EBHawk site is a wretched hive of scum and villainy, full of toxic personalities and so on and so forth. I hear about these, and go immediately to the forum threads to see what happened. It's business as usual.

Each time a friend of mine elected to leave the site it was because of members of the community, in the chatbox, going out of their way to say inappropriate things, and demonstrably showing that they don't give a shit what anyone thinks.

I tell them - hey, before you leave EBHawk, turn off the chatbox.

A couple people did this and are back to keeping tabs on the forums, where the ACTUAL GODDAMN ROLEPLAYING is happening/being planned/being discussed. Isn't that what we're all here to do, anyway?

And they actually realize it ain't so bad.

So how about it?

ETA: This has been posted here because I could not find a definitive list of the active moderators in order to do this via PM.
14ff2d9301b30ea359041a7b4c30231e.png
Posted Sep 20, 16 · OP · Last edited Oct 27, 16
Jawa-Appro...
x 4
x 4
List
Undo
Posts:
183
Neutral
Can definitely see the practical benefits to this, on the other hand I'd kind of miss having somewhere to just drop in and do IM chat because someone/multiple someones decided to act like a donger. If there was an ignore tool for chat or some kind of consensus on "don't do x aggro-drawing behaviour" maybe it'd help but I dunno.
I kind of agree but hope it doesn't wind up becoming a necessity, if it makes sense? I like the positives to having a chatbox.
Posted Sep 20, 16
Jawa-Appro...
x 2
x 2
List
Undo
Posts:
509
Administrator
Republic
Howdy there!

The chatbox is very much a voluntary thing. It's very much an option that is not forced upon you. You can hide the chatbox, you don't have to use it. For anyone that dislikes it, that's the only thing you need to do-- Hide it. Never enter, and that's completely your choice. I, as the administrator, (unless there is a vote which this thread is not) would not want to silence those who actually enjoy using the chatbox to talk to other people.

If you wish to make it an option for the community to decide upon rather then a suggestion to us as the staff, that would be fine. We've already reached the conclusion that it is fine. We don't mind doing the work. To moderate the chat-box. Nor does the newer staff. Which, we thank them for. I, do.
9ab7ad7f337bd30c517104fa6dd2d241.png
Posted Sep 20, 16 · Last edited Sep 20, 16
Jawa-Appro...
x 10
x 10
List
Undo
Posts:
229
Moderator
Developer
Donor
Neutral
Nah. While this is well intentioned, it's heavy handed and impractical in my opinion. Plenty of people like the chat box. Sure, it can get a little tense at times, but the same thing happens in threads too, and I don't think anyone would seriously suggest that we close the forum altogether. The chat box is fine.

You are of course welcome to choose not to look at it or participate, however!

Here's how to do so.

Step one:
Yz1z9wg.png
Click here.

Step two:
CdYybB4.png
Click here.

That will leave the chat box as well as hide it so you never even have to see it. This way, the people who like the chat box get to keep it, and the people who don't never even have to see that it exists. Everyone's happy.

The list of active moderators is available in a sticky thread under the Front Desk section of the forum. It's a good idea for people to have that link handy so they can know who to contact when they want to report something, so here it is.

Edit: I want to be sure no one takes this post the wrong way. The minimize button on the chat box container is difficult to notice; it isn't immediately clear what that button does. I really am trying to help people who want to avoid the chat box do just that.
Posted Sep 20, 16 · Last edited Sep 20, 16
Jawa-Appro...
x 5
x 5
List
Undo
Posts:
132
Banned users
I do not believe the removal of the chatbox would directly translate to an increase in forum activity, and I echo Alex's statement. For me, personally, it's really the only place I communicate with people outside the seldom pop up message of people throwing books at me.
Posted Sep 20, 16 · Last edited Sep 20, 16
Jawa-Appro...
x 2
x 2
List
Undo
Posts:
645
Contractor's Board
Donor
Neutral
The initial feel I get from this suggestion is easily put and my biggest issue with it. The suggestion is, quite simply, punishing the majority for the actions of the minority. Sure, a chatbox isn't for everyone and that is fair.

Your first point - This can be solved by simply moving the chatbox so it isn't the first thing people see, have it beneath the forum sections perhaps. Maybe keep the holotracker up top as it is the most useful one and any new people who accidently post there can be easily helped to where they need to.

The second point - Agreed. Too many people get way too passive-aggressive with others based on old grienvances and grudges, bad blood and just sheer dislike of them. It isn't hard to name off a few people, past and present, who do this in the chatbox when they see fit. This isn't the fault of the chatbox, however, it just provides them a quick means to fling poodoo at each other like the children they want to be. They'll do this where ever they want to.

Third - Chat can be seen by everyone, unless a mod deletes something, but I'm fairly certain from my own experiences of them that the message is still kept in a log. You can scroll back several hours and see plenty - The mods likely have access to even further back. It isn't that hard to contact an mod if something starts to kick off either.

As for the rest...

If you're friends have that big of an issue with certain members of the site, why aren't they making an complaint to the moderators? Those people aren't going to change their tune if no one is slapping them and pointing out how much of a dick they're being.
Posted Sep 20, 16
Jawa-Appro...
x 4
x 4
List
Undo
Posts:
254
Empire
If you're friends have that big of an issue with certain members of the site, why aren't they making an complaint to the moderators? Those people aren't going to change their tune if no one is slapping them and pointing out how much of a dick they're being.

Not to distract from the topic at hand, but I wanted to address this point.

We've had a few instances recently where individuals have claimed we've sat on our haunches and done nothing... only for us to wonder what in the hell they're referring to. If people don't report bad behavior ON THE SITE, we can't do anything about; and heaven forbid the conduct happen off-site, we can still approach the individual to hopefully get them to knock the crap off when on the site.

Additionally, people need to make sure they're reporting said instances to ALL members of the moderation staff. Sometime's users will only reach out to one member, who may or may not be available in the moment, and the issue isn't addressed right away. Our information's always been readily available in this thread, which is also accessible via the drop-down menus at the top of the EBHawk pages.

That out of the way, we'd typed up a post on Chatbox Etiquette earlier today, following the morning's events; Krek and the team approved it a short while ago, hence why it only went up fairly recently. Hopefully it will help curb some of the poor behavior that the minority seem to favor, so as to benefit the majority that manage to conduct themselves properly.
Posted Sep 20, 16
Jawa-Appro...
x 1
x 1
List
Undo
Personally I just think if someone reaches out to a mod they think is present at the time about something that's about to spill over in chat, said mod ought to do more than just go "change the topic please," because that hasn't worked very much. A hand-slap on the offenders with a quick mute or hell, a kick, would go a long way to enforce proper chat behavior.

And if people don't like being kicked/muted/etc, then they'll either leave and take their assholery with them, or they will learn to behave.
Posted Sep 20, 16
Jawa-Appro...
x 2
x 2
List
Undo
Jai
Posts:
129
Neutral
wrote:
Nah. While this is well intentioned, it's heavy handed and impractical in my opinion. Plenty of people like the chat box. Sure, it can get a little tense at times, but the same thing happens in threads too, and I don't think anyone would seriously suggest that we close the forum altogether. The chat box is fine.

You are of course welcome to choose not to look at it or participate, however!

Here's how to do so.

Step one:
Yz1z9wg.png
Click here.

Step two:
CdYybB4.png
Click here.

That will leave the chat box as well as hide it so you never even have to see it. This way, the people who like the chat box get to keep it, and the people who don't never even have to see that it exists. Everyone's happy.

The list of active moderators is available in a sticky thread under the Front Desk section of the forum. It's a good idea for people to have that link handy so they can know who to contact when they want to report something, so here it is.

Edit: I want to be sure no one takes this post the wrong way. The minimize button on the chat box container is difficult to notice; it isn't immediately clear what that button does. I really am trying to help people who want to avoid the chat box do just that.


Followed this protocol back in April 2016. Thank you for the refresher for anyone else who might be wondering how to do it, though.
14ff2d9301b30ea359041a7b4c30231e.png
Posted Sep 20, 16 · OP
Jawa-Appro...
x 1
x 1
List
Undo
Posts:
140
Neutral
A little while ago I asked a mod about consequences for a certain user's behavior in the chatbox that we seemed to both agree was pretty inappropriate and deserving of being somehow addressed by the mod team. I asked why no action had been taken, since the stuff in question had been ongoing for weeks by then, and the response I got was more or less "I don't know, we were going to do something".

That user's actions, as far as I know, are still unaddressed several weeks later, and they continue to say the same kind of stuff in the chat pretty often. That's more or less when I realized the mod team just seems very reluctant to discipline over chat-based stuff and it's best to close the chat and pretend it's not there rather than trying to pursue mod intervention regarding anything said in there. Maybe I'm getting the wrong idea -- that's just how it looks to me right now.

I do like the mods, and I can sympathize with how tough it must be to moderate something like a chat box, but I've found them to be kind of off their game recently, at least by my expectations.

EDIT: I've just been informed the person in question has had their actions addressed recently! I still feel dissatisfied with how long it took, and I still think the mods are tiptoeing just a little around issues in the chatbox, but I'm very glad stuff's getting addressed. Adding this so nobody gets the wrong idea from me.
Posted Sep 20, 16 · Last edited Sep 20, 16
Jawa-Appro...
x 1
x 1
List
Undo
Page
of 2
NoticeNotices