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Chapter 16 Discussion

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You have a right to be critical sure, but at the same time I do entirely stand by my belief that if unless you are willing to go prove that you can do the same thing and do it better your criticism should be sparing. People find it very easy to criticize yet often when you ask them how they would do it better they have no actual responses.

That's not how that works. People are, in fact, allowed to have an opinion no matter sort of authority (or lack thereof) they have. You really shouldn't dismiss someone's opinion because of something so utterly ridiculous.

You don't have to agree with their opinion. That's fine. But don't say their opinion carries any less weight than your own.
Posted Aug 9, 16
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You have a right to be critical sure, but at the same time I do entirely stand by my belief that if unless you are willing to go prove that you can do the same thing and do it better your criticism should be sparing. People find it very easy to criticize yet often when you ask them how they would do it better they have no actual responses.

That's not how that works. People are, in fact, allowed to have an opinion no matter sort of authority (or lack thereof) they have. You really shouldn't dismiss someone's opinion because of something so utterly ridiculous.

You don't have to agree with their opinion. That's fine. But don't say their opinion carries any less weight than your own.

You are entitled to feel that way if that is how you choose to look at things, but I personally do not believe that is true. I think everyone is entirely entitled to their opinion but I do not at all believe all opinions are equal in every case. To me the opinion of someone who knows next to nothing about a topic is not equal to the opinion of someone who is knowledgeable on that same topic. That does not mean that I do not support their right to have that opinion, because I do.

Saying ALL opinions are equal is what is utterly ridiculous, by that sentiment the opinion of someone who cant read and has never read a book, that they have about that book because someone told them something about one chapter in the book is as equally valid a critique on the entire book as the opinion of someone with a literary degree who has read the entire book.

They are certainly both entitled to opinions but the weight of their opinions is not equal and should not be treated equally.
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Posted Aug 9, 16
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Can we get back on track?

Let's discuss the ending, not discuss the validity of other person's -feelings- on the ending. That's just kinda trite and not going to get us anywhere.

I'm hoping for an elaboration on the SIth Empire, soon. We need to know if Empress Acina has disbanded the Dark Council or reformed it, or kept it the same. Also, if the Ministry of War is secretly supporting the 'defections' of their people to the Alliance. Shadow Wars, people :-)
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Posted Aug 9, 16
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So, I've yet to actually play the damn thing because of my lack of a subscriber status. Though so far, I'm gathering that we've got to wait for another expansion.

A bit ridiculous in my opinion, but I'll live. I just hope to God we don't have yet ANOTHER timeskip that we all have to RP out. All my characters are gonna be like fifty by the time this is over.

Edit: Can we please actually shape up the Republic if they're the canonical victors of the war against the Empire anyways? Saresh is far from a good leader. There's got to be a reason why a failing state of corrupt politicians and lackluster soldiers beat a revenge driven blitzkrieg of evil. But I'd like to see more three sided skirmishes of Republic vs Empire vs Zakuul. I'm kinda getting sick of the whole "let's team up to take out the bigger bad guy" thing. That's just my opinion, though.
Posted Aug 9, 16 · Last edited Aug 9, 16
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Sahresh isn't the Chancellor any more, so to say. From my understanding, she is still kind of in charge behind the scenes still. I'd wager that nobody really lost. With Ziost, that probably would have caused civil war in the Empire IF not for Zakuul and the Emperor's interference. Which, to be fair, the Empire's always in a sort of state of civil war and unlaw.

Also, yes. Let's not debate how we debate about debates.
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Posted Aug 9, 16 · OP
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Can we get back on track?

Let's discuss the ending, not discuss the validity of other person's -feelings- on the ending. That's just kinda trite and not going to get us anywhere.

I'm hoping for an elaboration on the SIth Empire, soon. We need to know if Empress Acina has disbanded the Dark Council or reformed it, or kept it the same. Also, if the Ministry of War is secretly supporting the 'defections' of their people to the Alliance. Shadow Wars, people :-)

Yeah, sounds good to me. That would be an incredibly unproductive discussion anyway.

As for the topic? I haven't played through the story since Bioware is really good at lying, but I've watched it, and what I saw was not impressive, and there are a ton of examples that stick out. Here's just one of them!

SCORPIO was a consistent character up until this chapter. Droid or not, she was a well established character who acted consistently and in predictable ways.

You know, until she doesn't, because it suits the plot. I'm at the point where I'm ready to give up on Bioware ever telling us anything useful. Even if they did, there's no guarantee they won't change it two chapters later for a twist we all saw coming a mile away.
Posted Aug 9, 16 · Last edited Aug 9, 16
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Can we get back on track?

Let's discuss the ending, not discuss the validity of other person's -feelings- on the ending. That's just kinda trite and not going to get us anywhere.

I'm hoping for an elaboration on the SIth Empire, soon. We need to know if Empress Acina has disbanded the Dark Council or reformed it, or kept it the same. Also, if the Ministry of War is secretly supporting the 'defections' of their people to the Alliance. Shadow Wars, people :-)


Yes, I too wanted to know if the DC still exists or whether the Empire is purely under the rule of the Empress. Or the fact that Sith Intelligence ( Lana leaving SInt is still kinda sketchy ) still exists but with greater emphasis on droids. ( It's all speculation on our parts ). Personally, I feel that Acina is supporting a 'Shadow/Proxy War' given the email she send IF the Outlander rescues Admiral Ranken but even then, it's only a singular evidence. :(
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Posted Aug 9, 16
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Sahresh isn't the Chancellor any more, so to say. From my understanding, she is still kind of in charge behind the scenes still. I'd wager that nobody really lost. With Ziost, that probably would have caused civil war in the Empire IF not for Zakuul and the Emperor's interference. Which, to be fair, the Empire's always in a sort of state of civil war and unlaw.

Also, yes. Let's not debate how we debate about debates.

Well even in her state of being, she is still using the new Chancellor to enforce her policies.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Leontyne_Saresh

So as far as we're concerned, she's still in power, even without the office.
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I'd wager that nobody really lost. With Ziost, that probably would have caused civil war in the Empire IF not for Zakuul and the Emperor's interference. Which, to be fair, the Empire's always in a sort of state of civil war and unlaw..


I Imagine Ziost pretty much evened the board in different ways when it happened. The Empire took a significant military hit when it was already weakened, but at the same time the republic took a big military hit as well. The republic also however likely faced political ramifications of the loss of the fleet that the Empire wouldn't. Those ships that Saressh threw at Ziost came from somewhere, they were likely originally protecting somewhere, those worlds would likely have begun creating pressure in the senate to have other ships moved from other areas to protect them, and the Senate is far from efficient in getting things done in a speedy manner. It may also have raised questions, at least temporarily about Saresh's leadership.

The Republic's weakness is after all not really it's military but it's government and its inefficiency and corruption. An incident that causes a political uproar is likely to be just as damaging to them as a military loss.
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Can we get back on track?

Let's discuss the ending, not discuss the validity of other person's -feelings- on the ending. That's just kinda trite and not going to get us anywhere.

I'm hoping for an elaboration on the SIth Empire, soon. We need to know if Empress Acina has disbanded the Dark Council or reformed it, or kept it the same. Also, if the Ministry of War is secretly supporting the 'defections' of their people to the Alliance. Shadow Wars, people :-)

Alth said Acina sends you a letter in Chapter 15 saying she agrees with you but can't publicly support you.

Overall, a lot of the discussion here could go to a "Kotfe impression" thread that entails the whole expansion, so lets get back on track about the Chapter.

I liked cinematic parts.
I dislike the boss fights. Too convoluted for a story chapter and not a raid. Though this is a whole game problem.
I liked that there were less trashmobs.

I am disliking the bit that Scorpio just wanted to free her "children. I felt like her sticking with a power grab as the main reason would be much better / less sentimantal. She could have still came to an agreement with Vaylin.

Yeah, Koth stealing the ship is kind of "WTF team how did you let that happen?" stuff, but at least some of cour choices matter.
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Posted Aug 9, 16
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