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Sun at 1:12
A bounty hunter in armor of vaguely-Mandalorian style has been spotted shopping on the Promenade. He appears to be looking for infant-sized clothes. (Eksa [alt code 0228 on the "a"] Bendak, Empire, Nar Shaddaa instance 3, coordinates X -1083 Y -712)
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Resolved [Suggestion] Allow the self-deletion of threads.

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Title more or less says what the suggestion is. People should be able to delete their own threads. I searched and couldn't find this suggested before.

So, the question is: Can you handle deleting your own threads responsibly and when appropriate?
Yes.
36 votes
52.2%
No.
33 votes
47.8%
Number of voters: 69
Poll is closed
Posted Aug 30, 15 · OP
Von
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Empire
I don't see whats hard about editing your post to, "Please delete. Content not conducive to topic." Then messaging a Mod to remove the post. I don't believe the opposition wants anyone to be "punished," but if you post something embarrassing or uncouth and you choose not to edit it then you are only 'punishing' yourself.
Posted Aug 31, 15 · Last edited Aug 31, 15
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I am against users being able to delete their posts. I foresee potential abuse. I have seen the vicious cycle over years. Someone starts a thread; flames someone; gets called out for it; deletes incriminating evidence; What was said is gone; the community will fill in the blanks; and drama spills over.


Be more impeccable with the written words.

The only drama I've ever seen on this board is the drama people create when they make it all about themselves, like this thread has the potential to become. Do not make this an 'us' versus 'the moderator' statement. It's not. It's about accountability.

The community is quick to put the moderator's feet to the fire. They are called on every little infraction as perceived by the community. But unlike the members, they leave every trace of their written word because they are accountable. Why should members not be?
Posted Aug 31, 15
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I voted 'yes', in that I agree with the context Shehish was talking about. Sometimes I double post a dossier or post something as a reply to the wrong thread. I've also got a couple old dossiers I'd like to get rid of. It can be a bit annoying having a waster thread sitting around until the moderation team gets around to it.

At the same time, though, I'd be ok with dealing with that minor annoyance if it means people don't get to abuse the delete function, for moderation purposes. If you're a dick, I feel like people should have a right to see or know that and make up their minds. If that makes sense.

So if there's a 'yes, but:' option I'm all for it.
Posted Aug 31, 15
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Hey there everyone! Time for me to weigh in. (Abandon hope, all ye who enter here)

First, there has been a *lot* of 'well he means this' which is, in my opinion, due to the phrasing of the question. But to be entirely clear, the question I am addressing is "Should users be able to self-delete their threads" The 'goalposts' of the topic have been shifted and discussed by many users, and I think that dynamic discussion is great, but *isn't* relevant to the poll itself. The poll's initial question is what I will hone in on, simply because it's what the poll is voting on. We can't adjust expectations to later posts, unfortunately.

Alright, I am going to explain where I at least am coming from. As a user, I am sympathetic to wanting to can my forum posts. What if I double post? That's just awkward. What if I realize the topic has been discussed before? There are plenty of valid reasons to want to do a little self deleting. The problem that is arising is that, as a moderator team, we run the risk of someone potentially saying "Oh god people are arguing with me/others/the moderators" and then they remove the thread entirely. Then we have a gap, where users can't see what has already been contributed to. Suppressing our history is just as likely to open up a can of worms as anything else. But we got 5 mods, pretty much on universally, who can get a post pulled within less than... What, 8 hours at the worst? And that removes the threat of loss of accountability.

The way the question is phrased is very, very one sided. The question of this poll is effectively "Can you do it?" not how it should be implemented. I am more than aware that is splitting hairs, but it's someone I don't want to see repeated in future polls and suggestions. It makes everything questionable, and it turns the valid suggestion into a vague guessing game.

I'm the first one to take the side trusting people, but I really, really am concerned about potential abuses. I'll speak for the other mods when I say we want to meet you halfway, and delete things as quick as you need, and as we can, but I hope you guys understand where I am coming from with my concern. I am closely following this thread, but I worry about people taking sides arbitrarily.

This discussion, I believe, can be healthy, but I wanted to be as upfront as possible about personal concerns. Regardless of the outcome of the poll, we'll seriously take a look at all ideas mentioned here.
Posted Aug 31, 15
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wrote:
Someone starts a thread; flames someone; gets called out for it; deletes incriminating evidence; What was said is gone; the community will fill in the blanks; and drama spills over.

We can already clear out 100% of the contents of a post and no one (not even the mods or administrators) can see what you originally wrote. If this forum did have an edit history tracker, I could see making this argument, but right now deletion and editing are essentially the same.

Here's how I see it (green for positive, red for negative):

EditingDeletion
Remove incriminating evidenceRemove incriminating evidence
No post historyNo post history
Post can remain in quotesPost can remain in quotes
Can't remove entire threadCan't remove entire thread
Accidental/old posts can not be cleaned upAccidental/old posts can be cleaned up
Requires moderator effort to clean upDoes not require moderator effort to clean up
"Hell hath no fury like the vast robot armies of a woman scorned."
Portfolio || DeviantArt
Posted Aug 31, 15 · Last edited Aug 31, 15
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wrote:

EditingDeletion
Requires moderator effort to clean upDoes not require moderator effort to clean up

The moderators have already weighed in saying this is a non-issue. They have no problem intervening and likely prefer the opportunity to intervene on a post that might cause issues. That being said, I've drifted to the fence on this issue: I've noticed that a number of other enjin forums I've used for RP allow the self-deletion of posts. Not the deletion of entire threads, just posts. So at this point, I will yield to the moderators to decide what they believe is best for their forum.

“We have only one story. All novels, all poetry, are built on the never-ending contest in ourselves of good and evil. And it occurs to me that evil must constantly respawn, while good, while virtue, is immortal. Vice has always a new fresh young face, while virtue is venerable as nothing else in the world is." -- John Steinbeck, East of Eden



Posted Aug 31, 15 · Last edited Aug 31, 15
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Maybe I'm just lazier than the average forum user, but I'd rather be able to just click the "X" button than have to go look up what moderator is online, send them a message, explain why I want something deleted, and then make them go and clean it up for me.

My little cost/benefit analysis shows that allowing deletion is a net benefit because it saves moderator and forum user time, while still having the same disadvantages of the existing edit functionality.

I guess if the moderators and users derive more enjoyment/pleasure (a positive) from entering into the moderator-assisted post deletion process as opposed to self-deletion, then that would make editing have a net positive score.
"Hell hath no fury like the vast robot armies of a woman scorned."
Portfolio || DeviantArt
Posted Aug 31, 15
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Von
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wrote:

The way the question is phrased is very, very one sided. The question of this poll is effectively "Can you do it?" not how it should be implemented. I am more than aware that is splitting hairs, but it's someone I don't want to see repeated in future polls and suggestions. It makes everything questionable, and it turns the valid suggestion into a vague guessing game.

It's not splitting hairs at all but calling it what it is. Skewed questions get skewed results. Many studies where surveys are taken are thrown out for the illegitimacy of such questions.

Dead horse beaten!
Posted Aug 31, 15 · Last edited Aug 31, 15
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The problem that is arising is that, as a moderator team, we run the risk of someone potentially saying "Oh god people are arguing with me/others/the moderators" and then they remove the thread entirely.

Gruuvan clarified earlier that this isn't how that works. And that's good, but that's still not enough for me to like the idea. Users can still delete individual posts. While moderators would have access to that history to see who had deleted what, other users would not. There might be a piece of an ongoing conversation missing, but no way to see that a post had been removed.

That's a problem, and yes, it has the potential for abuse.

I still think that people who want to remove their content should use the edit function to do so. That way, it's clear to everyone that you were involved, even if they can't see what that involvement was. It's an accountability issue as well as a matter of convenience and clarity.

Edit: Note that all users can clearly see that this post has been edited (as well as when it was edited). They may not be able to see what the edit is unless I differentiate, but they can see that I have changed the post. That's a good thing. It means it's possible for any user of this forum to see that I have gone back and changed what I said, and they can weigh that when reading this post and any responses.

Even if I cleared the post, the fact that at one time I chose to participate in this thread would still be visible.

That wouldn't be the case with deletion, as I understand it. If you don't want others to see that you've participated in a thread, that's a strong indication that you should be more careful when choosing what threads to contribute to.
Posted Aug 31, 15 · Last edited Aug 31, 15
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